EP 51: The Power of the Personality with Merrick Rosenberg - Full Episode

Hi, I am here with Merrick Rosenberg. He is is a keynote speaker and thought leader on personality styles and team development. He co-founded Team Builders Plus in 1991 and Take Flight Learning in 2012. He is the author of The Chameleon and co-author of Taking Flight!

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Ari Gronich 0:00

I'm Ari Gronich. And this is create a new tomorrow podcast.

Welcome back to another episode of create a new tomorrow I am your host, Ari Gronich and today with me is Marrick Rosenberg. And Merrick is the co founder of team builders plus, which was in 1991. And take flight learning in 2012. He's the author of three books, personality wins the chameleon and taking flight. These are all books about tapping into the power of your personality. So this is where it becomes interesting, because we're going to talk to tumeric today about personalities, and the ways in which these personalities define the reality that we live in. So he doesn't know that yet. But he does now. So Merrick, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself how you got to forming this system regarding personalities, and how it may differ from some of the other well known personality discovery tools out there. So

Merrick Roseberg 1:22

by back in 91, as you mentioned, I started one of the first team building companies in the country. And it didn't take long to realize that, wow, people just don't get along. And teams are dysfunctional, because of personality, that people just don't understand each other, they don't understand themselves. And, you know, the reality is the most self aware people are the happiest, and they tend to achieve their goals in life, they tend to have happy relationships. And that led me to this exploration of understanding personality styles, and they're just for so many tools out there that were using letters and colors was like an alphabet soup. And it was confusing. People just didn't remember it, you'd go back six months later, and they're like, wait, I'm the red, which one's red again, or I'm the this letter that letter, it's like, okay, it's got to be easier. And I taught it like that for a long time. That's how I was taught to teach the styles I worked with, with over 100,000 people teaching personalities, styles, too. And, you know, I go back, and people just weren't remembering it. And that's when the birds flew into my world and just came up with an easier, more visual, tangible way to teach people about themselves. And of course, everybody else in their life, too.

Ari Gronich 2:33

That's awesome. So, you know, tell me a little bit about the birds and how, how you came about them? Because, you know, again, you like you said, most people I'm a green, I'm a red, I'm a green, red, I'm a yellow blue. Or I'm an inf G or a j FY. And there's all of these different kinds. So tell me how you came out came about finding this style. Or

Merrick Roseberg 3:05

if you go back to the early 1900s. And even 1000s of years ago, in the early 1900s, William Marston had put together what he called the disc model, which was di sc. Now, it was fascinating. It was just rang true. But what's what's really cool about that is, is it paralleled what had been around for 1000s of years to Greek culture, the ancient Chinese civilization all over the world, people had four style systems, they called them different things. in corporate America, people tend to know them as the disk model di sc. But I just wanted to make it easier. And I was teaching the letters and I found that people weren't remembering them and, and I wanted to write a book about it. And I've kept feeling like, I'm gonna constantly have to say, the take charge D, and the energetic, enthusiastic eye and like, no one's gonna remember that. And then like I said, I wish it was visual and symbolic and like in a flash of insight in a moment, like this download the idea of, of linking it to four birds came to me and then I built a whole business around it, because it's just a matter of teaching people about themselves and the birds made it easy.

Ari Gronich 4:12

So which bird is which personality? real quick? Yep.

Merrick Roseberg 4:16

So speed version. I think of an eagle. That's what's called the dominant D style. Eagles are take charge assertive, they are bottom line, results oriented, that power pose you could see almost like that, that superhero. I'm in charge, power pose. Let's make things happen. The eye is what's often referred to as that interactive or influencing style. Parents are social, they're talkative, they're outgoing, everything's all good. Always works out. They're the eternal optimist. They just bring energy and fun. The dove is the supportive, very sensitive s style. dubs are caring and compassionate. symbols of hope and peace and love all throughout the world. They just want everyone to be happy and get along. And owls are that conscientious, but it's the sea style. owls are logical and analytical and thoughtful. We always think of them as wise. But of course, any style can be intelligent. But we attribute that to them because they're so thoughtful and there, they look like they're processing and taking in information. And if they're going to do something, they do it right. So that gives you the four birds that assertive D fun parrot. Caring dove, logical owl.

Ari Gronich 5:35

Alright, so we're gonna play we're gonna play a little game. You ready?

Merrick Roseberg 5:39

I'm ready. All right.

Ari Gronich 5:40

So I haven't I haven't done this before. I do have

Unknown Speaker 5:46

a little bit of noise.

Ari Gronich 5:53

So we're gonna play with some of my toys I haven't played with before. And I'm going to name somebody and you're going to name a personality to go with that.

Unknown Speaker 6:03

Hopefully,

Ari Gronich 6:04

I'm ready. You're ready. Okay. So we've got Albert Einstein.

Merrick Roseberg 6:09

So Einstein much more of an owl very logical, very analytical. He's interesting because he had a little bit of a parasite. It was actually kind of a funny, funny guy. But But our primary style for sure. And everybody's not just one you could be a combination of multiple styles.

Ari Gronich 6:23

Absolutely. Elan musk.

Merrick Roseberg 6:26

Elon Musk is interesting. He certainly has a lot of Eagle take charge I want to go where no one has gone before that like James T. Kirk, but he's got a lot of parrot to the I'm gonna send my my car to Mars. I mean, who does that that's a parrot thing to do.

Ari Gronich 6:45

All right, Bill Gates,

Merrick Roseberg 6:47

Bill Gates, very much of that owl style, very logical, analytical. I mean, if you think Microsoft is the name micro soft of its detail, when you first started the company was creating little mini programs. I mean, so well.

Ari Gronich 7:03

Alright,

Merrick Roseberg 7:04

Gandhi, Gandhi very much the dove, that caring soft spoken, compassionate style, but he also had some Eagle which is interesting, because he, he was very much the that what I call that activist style, that picture that dove, we care about people and that Eagle, I'm going to fight for people's rights, but not with aggression, but more with that dove patients but we will win which is the eagle so it's kind of a double Eagle combination style. Very interesting pattern.

Ari Gronich 7:33

Okay. Martin Luther King,

Merrick Roseberg 7:37

actually very similar to Gandhi has that Dove Style and the eagle they're very eloquent style because they speak both with compassion and conviction. And so Gandhi, Martin Luther King Obama all shared that style.

Ari Gronich 7:52

Okay, Muhammad Ali.

Merrick Roseberg 7:54

Muhammad Ali. You know, you think Muhammad Ali a boxer you think Eagle comes up? But no, he actually had a lot of parrot. He was fun. He was funny, but very compassionate. He had a parrot and a Dove Style, which is very atypical for what we would stereo stereotypically think of a fighter. People. Everybody has stories of just what a nice caring, compassionate guy he was.

Ari Gronich 8:17

Interesting. All

Merrick Roseberg 8:18

right. Let's go with Trump. Trump that dove right now definitely not enough. He is. He is the eagle. Kind of all. Eagle all the time. Direct, assertive bottom line, take charge confident that is the picture of an eagle. It would be Donald Trump.

Ari Gronich 8:38

All right, Biden are getting eaten by politics.

Merrick Roseberg 8:42

Yeah, much more of a parrot and a dove. He always has that big smile. very empathetic and caring. And look, he's made a lot of gaffes throughout his career. He's always done it. That's a parrot thing to do. There's a thin filter between thinking and speaking. And parents sometimes say things out loud. They're like, Oh, no, can I say that out loud. And then he has to walk it back at the parent thing to do with ease, but he has a lot of love to very caring, very compassionate.

Unknown Speaker 9:07

Alright, Bernie,

Merrick Roseberg 9:09

Bernie. Bernie's got a lot of Eagle. Very just, um, take charge. I'm doing my own thing. I'm gonna be the one independent guy in the whole Senate. I don't even care if you don't agree with me. I'm doing what I want. But he also has a little bit of dove in there. Sometimes he has those moments where he'll you'll see tears forming in his eyes. He's just so passionate about what he cares about.

Ari Gronich 9:28

Yeah, he does have a bit of a, you know, posture of an eagle at this point.

Merrick Roseberg 9:34

Yeah, he is Eagle but I think he's got a little Duff

Ari Gronich 9:38

All right, let's see. Buckminster Fuller.

Merrick Roseberg 9:43

I think a lot of owl kind of very thoughtful, logical, more detailed. Okay.

Ari Gronich 9:52

Last but not least, let's see here. Madonna

Merrick Roseberg 10:04

is a great one. You know, I think she she kind of beats to her own drum, which is very much an eagle thing. But I but I think she also has a lot of parrot in there too, that just flamboyant, I'm just gonna put myself out there. I don't care what anybody else thinks. I think it's a combination of eagle and parrot. All right, so do you think what were you think those are accurate as Yes.

Ari Gronich 10:28

I'm giving you my.

Alright, so now that now that we went through this little exercise, right? personality types, four that are that are good for people who are leaders. So let's say you want to be a leader, you want to be a follower, you want to be the guy who gets on board. So let's, let's kind of map the personality types that somebody would need if they're starting a movement?

Merrick Roseberg 11:05

Sure, well, here's, here's the first thing to recognize that there is no, this is the style of a leader. If you want to win, I always think of you're just activating that potential in you, you're getting yourself to that place where you're the highest version of yourself, accomplishing the absolute most you can accomplish in this life. It doesn't matter what your style is, your style does not determine how successful you will be. But your style absolutely determines how you go about being successful. So so I'll give you some examples that just kind of staying along this line of what we just did. Richard Branson parrot self made billionaire, Bill Gates out, self made billionaire, Howard Schultz from Starbucks, he is the dove I once heard him say, I want to create a company that my father never got to work at. I mean, it's just that caring, compassionate, dove, self made billionaire Steve Jobs, Eagle, another self made billionaire. Look, this is what you get when you are someone who taps into the power of your personality, and just takes your personality and creates something amazing. And that's what all of them did. So your personality isn't gonna determine how successful you are going to be. But you can bet it determines how you go about it

Ari Gronich 12:22

is a determine the position that you might take in the company like Bill Gates might take a position based on his personality he made the success may not depend on the personality type, but does the role that you play

Merrick Roseberg 12:41

for sure. Look, when I meet somebody like Bill Gates, that owl style is overwhelmingly I see them in engineering and finance it. And and that's, that's his world, where somebody like a parrot, like I'll use Richard Branson, he's the marketing guy, his genius is in his marketing. And that's when you go into a marketing department, you go into social media, you go into a PR firm, you find tons of parents. So that's how he drove his success. parrot. sensationalism. It's dramatic, it's big, but it's over the top. And that's how he he put himself out there. So exactly, exactly, you will find certain people will be drawn to certain jobs, because that's what feeds them.

Ari Gronich 13:25

So if you're hiring, though, if you're if you're looking for looking for team, right? How do you use those roles as your marker for what you're doing? Because I know a lot of people will just hire based on gut versus information. And so

Merrick Roseberg 13:49

that's right. And the big thing to recognize is that you have to be careful that you just don't hire in your own image. managers do this all the time. You've got an eagle manager there, take charge and assertive. And they think, Hey, I was once in this role that I'm trying to fill. And I know what it takes to be successful. You've got to be assertive and dominant, and you got to stand in your power. And so what do they look for somebody just like that. But maybe there's a dove, who would handle the job very differently, but be equally successful. But you've screened them out because you feel like oh, no, no, I don't want that I know what I need in this job. So the first thing is you have to be careful not to impose your personality on this role, because someone else may do it very well. And we've seen this you could have a salesperson who's a parrot salesperson who's an owl, they're both fantastic, amazing sales, but you can bet they sell differently. And that's okay. And so the other thing that we sometimes need to think about in hiring is, am I filling in a gap in the team? Maybe I don't have any owls on our team, and we make quick decision and quick decisions. No But he says, you know, maybe we should think this through first, maybe we should consider the following have we thought about this, if you had an owl on your team, they would do that. So sometimes you could use hiring as an opportunity to fill in for one of these gaps that they're missing one of the styles, because when you miss one, it's a potential blind spot in your team. So it could be a part of the hiring decision, everything else that you're looking at background experience, all that's important. But I do think style that personality should be a piece of the puzzle. It's one part of it that if you leave it out, sometimes you're missing something significant.

Ari Gronich 15:37

Gotcha. So let's go back to politics a little bit. And it's not going to necessarily apply the way I would think it would apply. But if I was to say, read, write, what personality types might pop up, or blue, what personality types might pop up, I believe that it's probably going to be pretty diverse, based on what you just said. So I'm going to ask you that in a little bit different way. What personality types are playing an effect in the noise that's being made currently, because we all hear about the silent majority, and the loud minority? So where does that silent majority play in their personality types versus the loud minority? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 16:33

look, when you there's no doubt that when you have eagles and parrots, they're much more outgoing and boisterous that they don't tend to be in any kind of silent majority. That's true in a staff meeting. If you don't, if Eagles if you have someone who's an eagle parrot, and they have a concern, do you think they just sit there quietly? And don't say anything? No way. But what happens is I think we're seeing the doves and and owls are much more introverted, they're much more reserved. And they're being more energized now to speak, and then just say, we're, I think we're starting to hear a larger percentage of the population than we usually have heard before, which is often that kind of parrot, Eagle, loud, boisterous style. We're hearing more from the owls and the dubs than we've ever heard before.

Unknown Speaker 17:24

Okay.

Ari Gronich 17:27

So if we're hearing from the owls, I would assume, right, that the things that we'd be hearing would include with logic and wisdom, and, you know, and thought and foresight, and all those kinds of things. That's what I would think of, if I'm, you know, looking at what, what a

Merrick Roseberg 17:52

right, but yeah, for sure.

Ari Gronich 17:56

And yet, I don't really see that kind of introspection and foresight, and so forth, and the things that are being said right now. And not only that, but the doves seem to be getting a little bit of a of an attitude themselves, the people I would normally have thought of, as the compassionate, you know, empathetic kind of, you know, people so they seem seem to be, you know, getting their beaks nice and sharpened for for the pecking so

Merrick Roseberg 18:26

well, it's because if you think first of all, you think about, think about dubs, I, I've always described them from like a, how they get upset perspective. It's like, they don't say anything, that they don't say anything, then they don't say anything. And then one day, it's just like, boom, and it explodes. And so I think we're seeing a level of frustration, that that we've never seen before just coming out. And, and I think, to your point, I think that what we're seeing what we're also seeing is, there's a lot of Eagle energy out there in that, which doesn't have a lot of detail behind it. But says, you know, this, there's a this is a bad situation and follow me, I will fix it. You know, I alone will fix what's going on. And then I think there's just a lot of faith from the owls that there's, there's, yeah, you know, we're not hearing a lot of detail, but it's there. It's behind the scenes, you know, there is information out there, I don't really need it, which is kind of interesting, because owls usually do need it. They usually want all the details. But I do think you're right. I think that a lot of the owls are just kind of saying I don't need all the detail. But I believe that if things are being said, I'm just going to trust it.

Ari Gronich 19:40

Yeah, it just seems so unlike the personality type of, of, of an owl. And so I'm wondering if the owl has, has mutated, I'm using a gentle word, instead of procreated has mutated into a different personality type at this at this moment, or if, if we're just seeing the alternative or the, you know, the mirror image side of, of these all of these personalities.

Merrick Roseberg 20:13

Yeah, I think, you know, I think what's happened is that when when you overuse your strengths, they become your weakness. And so when you dial up the owl too much, they actually don't become so detail oriented. They, they get to a place of frustration, and they say, you know what, I don't even need the detail anymore. I've just had it. And so when you dial it up that far, I think it's a problem. Also, there's been, you know, there's a, it become a fundamental mistrust in the data that's out there, that that idea that you can't trust the news, you can't trust the data. So you know what I'm not even going to trust, I'm going to forget about having to need the detail, I'm just going to trust the person who shares that there's a problem. And they've kind of let go of the need for the data because I can't trust the source of where it's coming from.

Ari Gronich 21:02

Now we go on to that familiar territory of if we can't trust the media, and the things that are being told to us, where do we go for information? If we rely on information to be our deciding factor in what we actually do?

Merrick Roseberg 21:23

I think we have to get back to a space where, where the data and the information that's being shared is truly accurate. And this is true from across the board on polit. from politicians, you know, the problem is that we don't really care as a nation if politicians aren't truthful. And that may sound like a very bold statement. But the reality is, look, we elected a president whose name was tricky dick. We connect elected another one whose name was slick, Willie, we didn't even care. And, you know, in our personal relationships, if, if I said to you, okay, here's this person, they're, they're dating somebody, and I measured it, I've been tracking everything that person says, 80% of the time, they are completely truthful, but 20% of the time, they don't tell the truth at all. You would say, I'm not gonna marry someone who lies 20% of the time. But if that were a politician, we'd go. That's pretty good. 80% of the time, they're honest.

Unknown Speaker 22:22

All right,

Merrick Roseberg 22:23

I'll take that I could live with 80%. And so I think in our personal relationships, we've we've come not to trust that we would say it this way, integrity, reliability, honesty is really important. But in our politicians, we we may not, we just come, we've come not to trust them. And we're like, yeah, they're honest, sometimes they're not honest other time, so just not even going to worry about it. And so, so that's the challenge is that we've gotten to a space where we don't necessarily trust them. And yet we're like, wow, I'll still vote for them.

Ari Gronich 22:56

Yeah, it's really fascinating to me, because, to me, they're, they're, you know, there's always going to be the people who are spoofing the leaders, the people who are in charge, but now it's the leader spoofing themselves. And and so it seems like the world has kind of turned backwards on itself. And we're in what's that world called in Superman where everything is the opposite

Unknown Speaker 23:28

of Bizarro world

Ari Gronich 23:30

or something? Seems like we've just entered into this Bizarro world and, and I'm curious is whether any of the personalities even make sense anymore? Or if you know, they've all ruffled their feathers? Yeah, you

Merrick Roseberg 23:48

know, what happens is when we overuse our strengths, it really becomes an issue. It's there's, there's an expression expression, which I love, which is any virtue carried to an extreme can become a crime, you take something positive, and you dial up the energy, you put it in the red zone, and it's a problem. And and, you know, this is, this is what we've seen with a lot of politicians, you take Eagle, and you dial it up too far, and assertiveness becomes aggressive. Confidence becomes arrogance, or even narcissism. And you take the parrot and dial it up too much, and it's just big energy, but there's nothing behind it. There's no plans or strategies and so we we have an issue where a lot of politicians are dialing up their personalities so much, that they're now turning off a lot of people. And and, you know, it's a it's a problem when we can't believe the people that are leading our nation and we just don't believe in them. And we need to just get back to that space. And we get back to that space when they are no longer overusing their personalities. They're using them at a healthy level. And you can look at that person and say, You know what, I don't agree with them. But they're trying their best. You're not going to agree with everything. You know, maybe my party didn't Take the White House. But, you know, I don't trust distrust their integrity. I philosophically disagree. But that's okay, I'm not going to always have a person that I completely aligned with. But I believe they're going to keep us safe and do their best to, you know, to hold America's greatest interests at heart. And we just got to get back to that space.

Ari Gronich 25:21

Right. So the question becomes, how do we, you know, how do we alter our personality as a nation to be less polarizing, and be more inclusive of other mindsets, meaning, you know, where we began as a melting pot, and it now seems as though you can't have any sort of nuanced thinking without being labeled on one side or another side. And for anybody who's in the middle, who, you know, I believe in these conservative principles, and I believe in these liberal principles, and I have this nuanced sense of reasoning. And nuance has left the building along with critical thinking and common sense. That's no longer common anymore.

Merrick Roseberg 26:14

Yeah, I think that what we have to get back to, and this is true in our personal relationships, and it's true in politics, and it's true at work, that we have to replace judgment with acceptance, that what we're doing is we're judging people, there's a, you know, this concept that if you can let go of judgment, then it gets replaced with acceptance and valuing. And we do this to ourselves, we judge ourselves, and then we can't step into our own power, we judge other people, and then they can't be, you know, we see them in a light that they can't, we don't even think they're honest with us, because, well, they're not like me, they disagree with me, we have to get back to a space where we accept people for who they are. And and, and not question their intentions and their motives all the time.

Ari Gronich 26:58

Awesome. Now, it's just a matter of how do we do that? what's the what's what's the tip, or the trick to to doing that?

Merrick Roseberg 27:06

You know, I always talk about using the birds and using the styles is that when you have an eagle, and they're very direct, except that's them for who they are. That's who they're that's who they are. That's it's not, they're not doing something against you. And that's the big key here is recognizing that, that if an eagle is being abrasive, it's not really about you. You know, if a dove can be smothering that, yes, it's love, but it's like here food, take it, bring it home with you here. I'll put more on your plate. No, no, no, no, you take it. It's like oh, my gosh, drives me crazy, actually has nothing to do with you. It's that it's really all about them. It's love, but it's dialed up too much. If you have an owl, and they're just providing you with too much details, too much information, don't take it as Don't you trust me, don't you believe in we've been able to do that think for myself has nothing to do with you. And this is true for all four sauce is that that don't take things personally understand that the way they're talking actually has nothing to do with you. It's just them being who they are. And letting go of that judgment and recognize that it's really not about you, it's really about them.

Ari Gronich 28:15

Nice. So you've done this kind of work with top, you know, fortune 100 companies. So give me kind of the inside wrap? Well, let's say you're in this meeting, you know, you and I are 10 people because I'm a Gemini, so I can be that. And so, you know, you have a meeting that you're directing, so to speak. So give me kind of the inside scoop, what would you say to the corporation, the heads of the corporation?

Merrick Roseberg 28:54

So for me, when I talk with especially senior managers, it's an or any manager could be a supervisor, it's are you creating an environment in which you would thrive? Or are you creating an environment in which your people will thrive? In other words, imagine you have you're an you're an owl leader, and as an owl, is it likely that you create a very structured process driven standard operating procedures, a lot of tracking and documentation and, and measuring data? What do you think if you're an owl?

Ari Gronich 29:26

Yeah, probably sure.

Merrick Roseberg 29:27

But now you're managing an entire team of parrots. How do you how do the parents feel? If you're one of those parents? How does that feel?

Ari Gronich 29:35

You're ruffling my feathers?

Merrick Roseberg 29:38

Yeah, don't you trust me? Don't you believe in me? So what it's all about is are you creating an environment for your people? Are you really just creating an environment for you? And if I flip that around, to be fair to the owls, I'm a parent manager. And I create a very free flowing, here's your goals. Here's your here's what I'm looking for. Here's what I need it, go for it. I believe in you and a motivating and empowering. How does an owl feel in that culture?

Ari Gronich 30:07

Not enough ruffled feathers?

Merrick Roseberg 30:09

Yeah. In fact, like, what are you looking for? What What do you want me to do? How do you want me to do it? What do you how do you want me to hand this in? Can you give me a sense of your process in the details, I'm not even sure what I'm doing? Well, why is the parent doing that the intention is to motivate and empower, just like the our managers intention is to set you up for success. But leaders have to realize that if you want your people to be the highest versions of themselves, and to succeed in a way that they are engaged, and they love what they do, but they also produce a lot, you have to treat them the way they want to be treated. You can't impose yourself on them, you can't create culture for you, you have to create culture for them. And so becoming that highest version of ourselves is, is very powerful as a leader, because then it ripples out into impacting a lot of people so that each of my people can become the highest version of themselves. And let's face it, everybody, if I create an environment in which my people will thrive, there's a lot less drama that I have to deal with on a daily basis, because they feel comfortable. And so, you know, it's creating culture, but creating culture for them, not you.

Ari Gronich 31:24

Interesting. So as the leader, who's like, let's say, I'm a, I'm an owl, and I need to have those metrics met. My team is a bunch of parrots and doves, not very organized, right? But I still obviously need that stuff in order for me to do my job. So how does the to match? How do you get somebody who's a parent to do our work? And if not, then how does that work? get done. So it's not you just being the one doing all the work all the time? Well,

Merrick Roseberg 32:04

the first thing I would say is, you always want to match people up to the role. If you want people to feel comfortable, when you're working in your style, it feeds you, when you're working out of your style. It's exhausting. So first thing is I would say, can you create and structure these roles so that each person gets to display the behaviors they enjoy, and they feel most comfortable. And once you've done that, everybody's going to be a lot happier. Now, look, obviously, there's going to be aspects of everybody's job, which you go, Oh, I just hate doing that. The parrot who has to track and record everything they do for sales, you know, they're reporting their sales data and documenting and submitting it is the part they hate the most. And that's why they often have an account manager, who's an owl who does all of that for them. So they can get on the phone and go out at meetings and go to networking events. But I would often ask our managers, when they say me, I need all this information. I always look at them. I go, do you? Did? Do you need all information? Like, let's take a look at what you really use out of everything you're asking for? What data do you actually use that has meaning and value that value for you that you can act on? And a lot of times, they've just been tracking data, because that's just what they've always done. So I would say to that, how can you maybe meet halfway so that you're the parent doesn't have to do so much tracking so much documentation and find a middle ground? I had this with my my CFO in my own organization. as a as a CEO, I should know what's happening in the company, I need to understand my numbers, I need to understand the data. But I'm a parent, Eagle Eye, just too much of that. It's just exhausting for me. And when we started, we created these these monthly financial meetings to tap in and check in. Okay, what happened that month? She brought like two hours worth of data. And I'm like, okay, like, we need to pare this down. Because Yeah, I don't have two hours worth of attention span. So and now we literally got down to about a half hour's worth of data that is the most important critical fundamental data I need to know. And she feels that I need to know. Now,